Think it could be magazine springs? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. It was initially 0.323 deep. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? Hey, everyone. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. . But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. The P-mags always functioned. JavaScript is disabled. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. Could the magazine be too low? After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Is it the length of the plunger? JavaScript is disabled. All Rights Reserved. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". These two pics right here, and the height difference. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. Measure the depth of the hole, first. That should fix it. Suggestions? I just checked and my BM lower does the same. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. I don't and I didn't . honest. Fig. What corresponding dimensions do you have? The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. They all functioned fine. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. It's a whole lot of details. You must log in or register to reply here. Display as a link instead, The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! Upload or insert images from URL. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. This is. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Similar occurences? I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. Crap! Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate Why not just ditch the PMags? The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. 1.4k Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. and might have several still in the packaging. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. Depth of the hole? Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. Your previous content has been restored. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. I read through the threads dealing with this issue. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. It did. Professional. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. Re: Magpul PMag issues. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Excellent work with the pics and details. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. I started construction with the lower at 80%. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). So far so good. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. This is one of my pistols. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. You are using an out of date browser. I have both just to keep ammo separated. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. All Rights Reserved. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. One new winner* is announced every week! From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. I'll have to get measurements later. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. Note the different rear opening. No need to answer that last question. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. You are using an out of date browser. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. Some people used a 9mm bolt catch, others shaved out the bolt catch area on the mag itself. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. I deepened the hole to 0.480. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? Paste as plain text instead, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. Pasted as rich text. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. Mar 3, 2022. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . One new winner* is announced every week! His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. For more information, please see our AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens..

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